CP+ 2023: Sigma interview – ‘I think people’s demand for lenses is unlimited’

Kazuto Yamaki, CEO of Sigma. Photo by Dale Baskin

While in Japan recently for the annual CP+ expo, we sat down with Kazuto Yamaki, CEO of Sigma, to get his thoughts on the state of the L-mount Alliance and some insight into his philosophy about running a camera and lens business.

This interview was conducted without an interpreter and has been edited for clarity and flow.

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How would you describe the overall health of the photography industry?

It will be tough this year due to recession and inflation in markets like North America and Europe. Also, consumers may spend more on travel and dining than purchasing goods. So, 2023 may be a bit tough.

We saw a spike in 2022 because the market grew a bit after the pandemic. I think the market is shrinking, but I hope it will soon hit bottom and flatten out.

The L-mount alliance is almost five years old. Has the program met your expectations, and how has the alliance evolved?

Five years is not a long time for a camera system. People will buy a system when they trust it, and it takes five years to show the benefits of using a system.

Moving forward, I think customers will see the advantages of using the L-mount system. It gives customers a wide variety of choices; they can choose Leica, Panasonic, or Sigma cameras and choose any of the lenses from each system. And now, Leitz Cine and DJI also make L-mount products, so I think the L-mount system has become an attractive option.

The heads of Sigma, Leica and Panasonic right after announcing their L-mount partnership in 2018.

Has the L-mount alliance presented any unexpected opportunities?

Yes. Initially, we planned to develop our own new mount for full-frame mirrorless cameras, but we eventually decided to work with Leica and Panasonic. It was a good call because there are great benefits for customers. We made the right decision.

When we interviewed you in 2019, your focus for L-mount was on creating a large number of lenses. Now that the lens system is more complete, are there any critical gaps to fill in the lineup?

I think people’s demand for lenses is unlimited. Moving forward, we’ll probably release more unique or innovative lenses that don’t exist in the market today, and we will create demand for unique lenses in the future.

With most camera manufacturers emphasizing full-frame systems, how important is APS-C to the future of a lens manufacturer like Sigma?

APS-C still has great benefits. Making good full-frame lenses that perform well from center to corner without vignetting is challenging. But with APS-C, we can make lenses with excellent performance at a decent size and weight. So for those who care about the balance between picture quality and the size and weight of a system, APS-C is still an excellent choice.

We can make a very compact camera body with a full-frame sensor, but making the lenses compact is still challenging.

Last month, Sigma showed off its new APS-C lenses for Nikon Z-mount at the CP+ expo in Yokohama, Japan. Mr. Yamaki believes that the APS-C format still offers a good balance between picture quality and the size and weight of a camera system.

As you expand your products to cover more lens mounts, how does it impact your design and manufacturing process?

It doesn’t have any impact on the lens design. We always try to achieve the best optical performance for each lens and each system. We might need to tweak some lenses due to differences between systems, for example, the filter [in front of the sensor], so while we need to optimize lens performance for each system, it doesn’t affect the lens’s optical design.

But it does affect the efficiency of the factory and the manufacturing process, and increases production costs.

We always try to achieve the best optical performance for each lens and each system.

We want to support as many systems as possible, but if we support mounts with limited demand or low volume, it increases the overall cost of our products. It’s unfortunate, but it means we have to forego some of the more minor mounts.

Is production more manageable now that there’s less interest in DSLRs?

Developing lenses for DSLRs required different resources because lenses for DSLRs were different. Now we’re only focused on developing lenses for mirrorless. We’re still producing DLSR lenses, so the manufacturing process is challenging because we have to make a wide variety of lenses for both DSLR and mirrorless.

How long do you think the DSLR market will continue?

I’m not one hundred percent sure, but if there’s no new DSLR cameras introduced to the market, I think DSLRs may be replaced in 3-5 years. However, as for the DSLR lenses, we’ll be making them as long as there’s demand. DLSRs still produce outstanding image quality when it comes to photos. So, if people shoot still photos, they should be pleased with that DSLR.

Sigma has earned a reputation for building quality lenses at an affordable price. As a smaller manufacturer, how do you achieve this?

There are two ways. First, we try to keep the company very small, with a lean organizational structure. We keep administrative overhead, like finance, human resources, marketing, and sales small, but we have huge R&D and factory teams.

Our philosophy is, ‘small office, big factory.’

Our philosophy is, ‘small office, big factory,’ which means we keep operations to a minimum and invest mainly in technology, product development, and manufacturing. A big factory enables R&D for products and technology, as well as manufacturing.

The second reason is that we have a very efficient factory in Japan. We can make very complicated parts or glass with high precision and efficiency. We only source simple parts from suppliers and process the complicated parts ourselves. By doing this, we reduce costs. If we sourced complex parts from suppliers, it would increase costs. So, the efficiency of the factory helps deliver the product at an affordable price.

Mr. Yamaki says one key to Sigma’s success is its ‘small office, big factory’ philosophy, which allows it to build high-quality products at competitive prices.

Many still photographers today seek technical perfection in their lenses. In contrast, many videographers seek lenses with unique ‘character’. What’s your philosophy about technical perfection vs. unique character in lenses?

It’s a good question. As a manufacturer, we like to achieve the highest optical performance possible. That’s a mission for us. We invest in technology, and we try to achieve the highest performance. But I’m aware of this type of demand from customers.

We did some research on these customers’ preferences and found that what they’re really looking for are lenses with some spherical aberration. We already provide such a lens: our 45mm F2.8 DG DN has relatively high spherical aberration. It’s a sharp lens, but it has a little bit of flare, especially at close distance, but some people appreciate that look.

We like to achieve the highest optical performance possible. That’s a mission for us.

Cameras have similar sensors today, so there’s less character on the camera side. They all provide high contrast and saturated color, so if you put a modern lens on them, all the footage looks very similar. So, they can create some uniqueness by using an imperfect lens.

We create this type of product occasionally, but our focus is on achieving the highest possible optical performance. However, if there’s more demand for these types of lenses in the future, we might release them.

Sigma has always taken a unique approach to building cameras. What are your guiding principles about camera design?

I admire the cameras from mainstream camera companies. They perform very well and satisfy the demands of many customers. But some customers aren’t happy with existing cameras and are looking for something unique. I believe it’s our mission to support these types of customers.

If we make ‘me too’ cameras, similar to the ones from the major brands, nobody will buy our cameras. So, we like to support those looking for something unique or different. That’s why we’re constantly evaluating whether there are any niches or unique demands for cameras.

How do the fp and fp L cameras fit into that vision?

I think the concept of the fp was well-received by customers looking for that kind of camera. Concept-wise, it was great. But there are things we need to improve.

The fp was misunderstood as being a video camera.

First, the fp [and fp L] was misunderstood as being a video camera. Actually, it’s not a video camera, but many people believe it’s a video camera. That was our mistake in communicating with the market.

These are great cameras for street photography. I personally use the fp and fp L for street photography, and people who use them for that purpose are very happy because of the small form factor. You can bring the camera with you every day, and it easily fits in your bag. But the camera was misunderstood as a video camera.

If you consider the fp as a video camera, it’s not a perfect one. I have to admit there are some drawbacks. For example, it doesn’t support Log recording. If we release an updated fp or fp L, we need to enhance the performance on the video side. Also, we’d like to better connect with still photographers who want a compact, lightweight, but high-quality camera for still photos.

The Sigma fp L, which Mr. Yamaki likes to use for street photography due to its small size and high image quality.

As recently as last year, you expressed optimism about building a prototype full-frame Foveon sensor by the end of 2022. How is that project progressing?

We’re still working on the sensor technology, but we still don’t have a prototype of a full-frame Foveon sensor. In 2019 we canceled our existing full-frame project and started it from scratch, and we started working on a new pixel structure.

We’re also developing a new sensor wafer manufacturing process. Every time we make a prototype sensor, we find some technical issues, so we’ve been solving them and narrowing them down, but there are still a few issues. I hope we can solve those problems sometime in the near future, and after we’ve done that, we’ll be able to make the final full-frame sensor.

Do you still aspire to build a full-frame Foveon camera?

Yes. Our customers are looking forward to it. Many issues must be solved, but I’d like to continue the challenge.

I can see the difference in the pictures between the Foveon and Bayer sensors. I’d like to achieve a similar look with a modern Foveon sensor.

I’ve personally used a Foveon sensor camera. Now I mainly use the fp or fp L, but when I look back on photos I took with our SD or DP cameras with Foveon sensors in the past, I can see the difference in the pictures between the Foveon and Bayer sensors. I’d like to achieve a similar look with a modern Foveon sensor.

The global pandemic impacted many companies. How did Sigma navigate this unique situation? What changes did it require for your business?

Actually, we weren’t affected much by the pandemic. Other companies had difficulty operating their factories because they had huge global supply chains. They produce products in China, Vietnam, and Thailand and source parts from neighboring countries.

Sigma only has one factory, in Japan. All our suppliers are located in northern Japan [where Sigma’s Aizu factory is located]. Electronic parts and glass materials come from overseas, but all our other parts suppliers are in Japan. Also, we didn’t experience lockdowns in cities here, so we could continue operating the factory.

I appreciate the exceptional discipline of our factory workers, and they worked very hard to prevent the spread of Covid and wore masks daily. That’s what allowed us to operate our factory. I couldn’t travel personally and sometimes had to work from home, but it didn’t disrupt our factory operation.

Mr. Yamaki says Sigma’s factory operations weren’t impacted as much as other companies during the pandemic due to keeping all manufacturing in Japan and using local suppliers. Above: a technician in Sigma’s Aizu, Japan, factory applies the Sigma logo to a lens barrel.

What other products or technologies in the photography world have impressed you most over the past couple of years?

That’s a very interesting question. The technology that has impressed me the most is computational photography. The image quality from smartphones has improved drastically over the past several years, mainly due to computational photography. I’m amazed. This might change imaging technology.

Camera and lens manufacturers need to learn something from it. Of course, we shouldn’t just copy the technology because we have much better hardware: bigger and better sensors, and better optics. But that kind of software is very powerful.

I believe they [the camera manufacturers] recognize the importance of computational photography. Still, as a camera and lens manufacturer, I feel we need to satisfy the very serious photographers and the history of photography culture.

The image quality from smartphones has improved drastically over the past several years, mainly due to computational photography.

We don’t need to satisfy customers who just want to play with images or want a cartoon look. We have to follow the tradition of photography. People have been pursuing better picture quality in photography for over 150 years, right? So we have to respect the photo culture. But if there’s technology we can use to enhance picture quality that can also contribute to photography culture, why not? We should use it.

2023 is DPReview’s 25th year of operation. Looking back, what have been the most significant changes in photography during the past quarter century?

Internet and social media, and of course, digital imaging. These technologies have changed the way we enjoy photography and share images.

As a result of these technologies, we started using images for communication. During the film era, we used photography for things like recording family events, history, or art. In the past 25 years, we’ve started using photos and videos for communication.

These technologies have created opportunities for all photographers, even amateurs, to become artists because they can take high-quality pictures and have a place to publicly show their work online. In the past, it was very difficult for amateur photographers to become someone special or to become a professional photographer. Today there are many opportunities for amateur photographers to become famous photographers.

25 years… Time flies!

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Editor’s note:

By Dale Baskin

Interviews with Kazuto Yamaki are always a reader favorite, and with good reason: his candid approach to answering questions and his passion for the industry in which he works are apparent. Although this interview was conducted in a back room at Sigma’s CP+ booth, I felt very much like I had been invited into Mr. Yamaki’s living room for a fireside chat.

A theme Mr. Yamaki touched on several times during our conversation was the concept of uniqueness and his desire for Sigma to create unique products, whether cameras or lenses. He stated early in the interview that Sigma would ‘…create demand for unique lenses in the future.’ That’s an easy statement to read past, but it’s an important one. His concept is that by providing unique products to photographers that don’t exist today, Sigma can help drive the development of new niches in photography.

A theme Mr. Yamaki touched on several times during our conversation was the concept of uniqueness, and his desire for Sigma to create unique products.

A real-world example of this would be Sigma’s 14mm F1.8 Art, a lens practically designed for astrophotography. As Mr. Yamaki points out, this type of lens wasn’t available before digital because astrophotography was a field that mostly required highly specialized equipment. Digital cameras changed that, but photographers still needed the right lenses.

Before the 14mm F1.8 Art, photographers had access to wide lenses, but not wide lenses this fast. Not only did astrophotographers snap it up, but the availability of such a lens inspired people with no experience in the field to buy them just to learn astrophotography. That’s creating demand for unique products.

This passion extends to cameras. He knows Sigma isn’t going to displace Canon or Nikon, but he wants to offer a unique product that inspires people who want something different to go out and take pictures. Foveon shooters, take note – Sigma is still working on that full-frame Foveon project.

Allow me to share a final anecdote. I was shooting with a Tamron lens at CP+, and every manufacturer I met playfully gave me a hard time about not using one of their own cameras or lenses. Fair enough. In contrast, when Mr. Yamaki saw my kit, he said, ‘That’s a nice lens. I like that lens.’ His genuine excitement about photography comes through, which is a good thing for Sigma and for photographers.